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Sticky:AFK CloakingGäó: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 757	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:03:10 - [1] - Quote "There is nothing wrong with cloaking! Lalalalalalala. Stop posting thousands of threads about cloaking! There is nothing wrong with it I tell you! " Tell me how small corps absolutely love hiding in a WH POS until more people come online; for hours and hours because they have no idea how many or what is waiting outside and if they will be able to get home, once they die. Please also tell me how it is wonderful that many will simply abandon a system, have to set themselves up else where because one guy, who isn't even playing is sitting there with an AFK toon. Stop beating about the bush. The bush is on fire and you saying the fire is good for your mashmallows doesn't help. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 757	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:11:48 - [2] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Mag's wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Stop beating about the bush. The bush is on fire and you saying the fire is good for your mashmallows doesn't help. The bush is on fire because it refused to accept making its home on the bank of an active volcano was dangerous. Instead it whined that its home was meant to be a safe haven despite the surrounding environment and he had a right to be there because he paid his mortgage in monthly installments. He never admitted that he probably didnt belong anywhere near a volcano in the first place and demanded god did something about the volcano rather than adapt his home or choice of location But can we please think of those WH dwellers and just how many have complained about AFK pilots in their WH systems, over the years. They may not like having a fiery bush. This thread had my attention again for a moment there...oh how dissapointed I was... What WH dwellers? Something like 4% of the entire player population and most of those are wrapped up in large alliance like No Holes Barred. There is and never really was anyone to make the complaints. Most players look at it and think how there is no way they will try defend that. I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks. Hit back at the AFK cloakers. Force Recons can also be specific hunters, they can see through cloaks at a given range, can D-scan through cloaks but can't decloak unless they neut it off them or get close enough. More details in CSM thread. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 757	Posted - 2015.01.16 19:38:20 - [3] - Quote Nikk Narrel wrote: Sure, null sec is dangerous, ~~UNLESS you are~~ even in your own claimed space. What are the current solutions? 1) Wait with a counter drop 23/7 and try catch them when they drop (No sane person is going to sit on 100% ready status to jump at a moment all day long) 2) Camp every gate into your region, all the time with a perfect composition. (Gate camping is as boring as mining and often less rewarding) Meanwhile, the AFK cloaker sits in perfect safety picking and choosing choice targets. They are better off than in a station because they can fly to various points and can D-scan. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 758	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:32:38 - [4] - Quote Lug Muad'Dib wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Nikk Narrel wrote: Sure, null sec is dangerous, ~~UNLESS you are~~ even in your own claimed space. What are the current solutions? 1) Wait with a counter drop 23/7 and try catch them when they drop (No sane person is going to sit on 100% ready status to jump at a moment all day long) 2) Camp every gate into your region, all the time with a perfect composition. (Gate camping is as boring as mining and often less rewarding) Meanwhile, the AFK cloaker sits in perfect safety picking and choosing choice targets. They are better off than in a station because they can fly to various points and can D-scan. I want to know how to warp, D-SCAN, cyno and choosing choice targets when afk ? As a defender, tell me what the difference is? They are AFK cloaked until they drop a BLOP on you. It is using a dedicated account for play denial. It is the lamest, most carebear thing to do, sit in perfect safety until the odds are perfectly in your favour to attack. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 758	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:36:33 - [5] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks. The fact that most want it to be a SOV structure should be a huge indicator that this is less of a balance problem and more like carebears being in null sec. Nullbears You are also disregrading the idea of Force Recons as a hunter of cloaked ships. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 758	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:40:14 - [6] - Quote Faren Shalni wrote: the difference between an AFK cloaker in W-space and K-space is that in K-space you see him in local. In W-space this in considered normal and is accepted. ...The difference is that you know he is there and is still there. ... The difference is that you are in a worm hole alliance that is large. Smaller entities, run, hide, then scan for all links to their system, hope they have enough cloaked people of their own to go and sit on those worm holes links and watch for when the enemies de-cloak when leaving, then keep sitting, waiting until they think it is safe enough to destabilise the link. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 758	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:55:12 - [7] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Eryn Velasquez wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: So we should add risk to docked players. Gotcha. Would be nice - open the inner door CCP and let's play DUST inside. But that has nothing to do with cloaked camping. It in fact has much to do with cloaked camping. Do you think it would be necessary to afk cloak if you could get into the homes of the carebears and destroy their ship in its hangar? Do you think they can go and seek more ships to attack in the whole wide galaxy of EVE and come back another time? People can AFK just as easily in a POS and that is destructable. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 759	Posted - 2015.01.17 16:19:58 - [8] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: New proposal: Deployable, small enough to fit in a covert ops frig. has a four hour cool down. When activated it ejects all docked ships from starbases and super bumps any ships out of a POS shield. It won't happen and I believe your posts are all trolling now. Faren Shalni wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Faren Shalni wrote: the difference between an AFK cloaker in W-space and K-space is that in K-space you see him in local. In W-space this in considered normal and is accepted. ...The difference is that you know he is there and is still there. ... The difference is that you are in a worm hole alliance that is large. Smaller entities, run, hide, then scan for all links to their system, hope they have enough cloaked people of their own to go and sit on those worm holes links and watch for when the enemies de-cloak when leaving, then keep sitting, waiting until they think it is safe enough to destabilise the link. Might I ask is this speaking from personal experience inside W-space in a PvP corp ? Over a year of personal experience. Check my killboards and alliance histories. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 764	Posted - 2015.01.19 03:03:06 - [9] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Because if it is cloaked and doing nothing there are no energy emission, light reflections, magnetic anomolies or anything else to detect. Actually, we can argue that it makes a dent in the dark matter fabric that we can take time to detect and get closer to where the cause of that is located. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 767	Posted - 2015.01.20 04:23:05 - [10] - Quote I have skimmed past the same people arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin Nikk Narrel wrote: The AFK Cloaking tactic is both time consuming, and has no guarantee of results. The result is play denial. You hang a threat over the locals of hot dropping a gang or fleet on them that will bat them right out of the ball park. So, they usually up ship and change systems, pilots, type of space they fly in or games until the coast is clear. Even when you bait an AFK cloaker out and kill them ... why the next time your group population drops low due to time zones, there they are again in a new ship. Why is AFK cloaking so popular? Because it can be so perfectly effective. Wait for the perfect time, slam the enemy when they have nothing and no time to respond, then disappear again. They should not have a perfectly safe way to wait around for the perfect time to strike. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog

Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 773	Posted - 2015.01.20 07:55:37 - [11] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: They should not have a perfectly safe way to wait around for the perfect time to strike. And if AFK cloaking is removed, .... ... then you have active cloaking, where they need to move from book mark to book mark when Recons are out hunting them, where they need to change systems or log off, where they need to make some really deep saved locations. The damage AFK-cloakers do, for the effort they put in and the ability to pick and chose the best morsels is disproportionate. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 775	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:53:49 - [12] - Quote Bullet Therapist wrote: Sorry, but not everyone that is caught ratting in null does so because they make a mistake; it's still entirely possible for players to be caught even if they're doing everything right and react appropriately, despite local.. Agreed. The mechanics are weighted in the aggressor's favour. Doddy wrote: AFK cloaking is no different to being afk in station or ... Show me a station that flies about a solar system, can't be bubbled on the undock and can hot drop people. Then your argument might have a leg to stand on. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 777	Posted - 2015.01.21 03:13:35 - [13] - Quote Nikk Narrel wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Doddy wrote: AFK cloaking is no different to being afk in station or ... Show me a station that flies about a solar system, can't be bubbled on the undock and can hot drop people. Then your argument might have a leg to stand on. Show me a PvE ship that is vulnerable to becoming a kill mail, while docked in a station. It can't be bubbled, hot dropped, or otherwise interacted with. It can still see who is present in the system. It can play with the market, fit new ships, or undock in something PvP fit. This includes nullified ships which can zip past that potential bubble, cloak up on it's own, and also zip about the system at that point. Docked ships : - Can't bubble, hot drop or otherwise interact with ships outside. - Can't D-scan or see where the enemies are. - It can undock blindly into a trap and be alpha'ed out of existance instantly. Cloak ships can: Do PI in the system, run remote markets, send ISK to people or recieve it and settle contracts. .... but then you are talking about AFK-cloakers as if they are real pilots and not just simply alt tools that people use for a given purpose. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 781	Posted - 2015.01.22 07:02:47 - [14] - Quote baltec1 wrote: The downside to an AFK cloaker is they can do nothing at all. The "upside" is that this can change at any moment for the gruelling 23.5/7/365 that they sit one in every system you use. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 789	Posted - 2015.01.22 14:41:39 - [15] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: If people are AFK they can't harm you. AFK cloaking is fine. Risk averse pansies too afraid to bait out a blops a gang are the problem. So, you think a counter drop must sit around 23.5/7 - ready to go at a moment's notice because one guy has put an alt in a system? How many accounts and resources should we have on gruelling "fun" standby for one guy that sits pretty in a perfectly safe cloak? Hmmm.... considering how many people can fly bombers for example, how many should be sit in a few nearby systems all rubbing against each other trying to rat in black ops ships while they try and kill the tedium or waiting? It is absurd. Like building a house with a faulty floor and dead bolt from the inside basement. Someone keeps crawling in there, locking themselves in then spearing you from between the floor boards and you have to have to keep dancing around hoping there is enough people that one of them can grab the spear and pull it out of the floor. Forget it. I can't even make a good analogy for this. It is such stupid game design. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 789	Posted - 2015.01.22 14:54:05 - [16] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Actually, smaller/slower hotdrops will lead to more ratting carriers which will lead to more (in total) hotdrops. I tackle your carrier in one ship, light a cyno. 5 guys jump through, each one has a cyno, 25 guys jump in. Each one has a cyno, 125 guys jump in....so it's a bad idea, but also a bad idea that wouldn't work. Easy solution: delay before you can light a cyno after jumping to one. Before you say something can't work, stop and ask yourself if you have closed off all of the possibilities. If you don't have special training in this field of mental brainstorming work, you're probably better off with the simple mantra: never say it's impossible. Actually, there is a pretty simple solution to what Seraph believes would happen of exponential cynos - cool down timer before someone that just jumped until they can generate a point for someone to jump to them. From here. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 792	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:28:34 - [17] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: If people are AFK they can't harm you. AFK cloaking is fine. Risk averse pansies too afraid to bait out a blops a gang are the problem. So, you think a counter drop must sit around 23.5/7 - ready to go at a moment's notice because one guy has put an alt in a system? How many accounts and resources should we have on gruelling "fun" standby for one guy that sits pretty in a perfectly safe cloak? Hmmm.... considering how many people can fly bombers for example, how many should be sitting in a few nearby systems all rubbing against each other trying to rat in black ops ships while they try and kill the tedium of waiting? It is absurd. Like building a house with a faulty floor and dead bolt from the inside basement. Someone keeps crawling in there, locking themselves in then spearing you from between the floor boards and you have to have to keep dancing around hoping there is enough people that one of them can grab the spear and pull it out of the floor. Forget it. I can't even make a good analogy for this. It is such stupid game design. So here is what you do. AFK rat until you die to said cloaker to figure out his timezone. AFK rat in a bait ship in said timezone. Kill cloaker. Once they know you'll fight back they lose interest. The only reason they prey on people they know they are easy targets. Anytime someone shows up to afk cloak in our home, we do this... know how many days I've lost to afk cloaking? None. Stop being a chump. Just this last week, we killed a covert frigate a few times before they could finish the cyno. They moved to a less used system. Almost immediately, as though it was coordinated, another coalition put a T3 covert AFK blopper into the system. Now, some T3s have a tank that takes a wheee bit too long to break, so they will probably get the whole blop in ... and this little camper happens to have an alliance that can drop more than we can ever scratch together in a defense or counter drop fleet. We bank on him not being able to do that most of the time. However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of *our home. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens. Leannor wrote:* Jenn aSide wrote: I mean, screw the EVE economy that the AFK cloakers actually indirectly help regulate and screw other people playing the game they way they want to. Hell, screw using the tools that ALREADY EXIST (like warp core stabs, target lock breakers, MJDs, Mobile MJDs, Mobil Cyno Inhibitors, Mobile Scan Inhibitors, FoF missiles, energy neutralizers, ECM, ECM drones, ECM bursts, Cynos, Defensive bubbles, friends, alts, friends with alts, alts with friends, etc etc). Show me the tool that already exists to scan down a cloaked ship? Or even get within range to then use other means to decloak it. Or a means to wear down a cloak so that it becomes not a cloak. All those things you say above deal with an uncloaked ship. I think I could start to love you a little. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 803	Posted - 2015.01.24 09:35:15 - [18] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: The part of this discussion you are totally ignoring is that this is only a 'problem' in nullsec. Why do you think that is? Wormhole residents ... Faren Shalni wrote: Faren Shalni wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Faren Shalni wrote: The difference is that you are in a worm hole alliance that is large.Smaller entities, run, hide, then scan for all links to their system, hope they have enough cloaked people of their own to go and sit on those worm holes links and watch for when the enemies de-cloak when leaving, then keep sitting, waiting until they think it is safe enough to destabilise the link. Might I ask is this speaking from personal experience inside W-space in a PvP corp ? Over a year of personal experience. Check my killboards and alliance histories. Fair enough Do not worry it was a few pages back. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Jenshae Chiroptera 2511	Posted - 2016.01.30 04:34:14 - [19] - Quote I still think players need a counter to AFK cloakers to prevent them sitting in a system for hours on end. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...

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